Rockne
I can understand your frustation at the statement about PTOs. It's called a "strawman" arguement in debate. The speaker creates your
arguement based on things he feels he can easliy knock down. The statements usually have nothing to do with your real beliefs. It's basically thinly veiled "Yeah us!" and nose thumbing. I hate that sort of thing.

This is my first time in this corner of the forum simply because of the title. I admit feeling reluctant to mention that I'm with a PTA because of it. But like you said, it doesn't matter most of the time what group you are with.
I am grateful that the forums are here. It's a great resource. Thank you so much for doing this.

Fair enough, I'll have to keep posting because I sure do like these cute little faces.

Fair enough, mom. There are definitely PTO v PTA comments in other parts of the site, but it's still a significant, significant minority of the overall content.

I think we agree on more things here than we disagree on.

RE: the article on our current home page. That is part of our "blog" which we update virtually daily. It just so happens that that story is getting top billing right now. It will scroll down (and then off) as we add more links. I'd say that 90%+ of the entries on our blog have nothing to do with PTo v PTA.

On that story, the "classic misrepresentation" I was referring to was this quote by the state PTA spokesperson:

""PTO focuses on fund raising and we don't."

Yes, that drives me crazy. If my anger in reading statements like that from PTA officials(statements which are belittling toward PTOs) seeped into my write-up -- guilty.

Agree completely that there are great PTOs and great PTAs and struggling PTOs and struggling PTAs. The acronym has nothing to do with that assessment. We've been saying that here for years.

In Illinois, the average PTA is spending $860 for affiliation. That's likely a good deal for groups taking advantage of all services and for groups who's missions include the state and national stuff. I also agree that PTOs shouldn't "shortsightedly dismiss PTA out of hand" just as PTAs (especially PTA state and national leadership) shouldn't dismiss the good work and good intentions of PTOs out of hand.

My advice on this to all groups has been and is: determine your group's goals, and then find the structure that will allow you to cost-effectively reach those goals.

Glad things are working well for your several groups.

Tim

Tim;

As both a PTA member and a PTO member (elementary PTA, middle school PTO) I understand both sides of the coin. However, I wasn't looking only at this section of your site. On the first page of this site is lists several articles in the first listing it makes the statement something to the effect of "classic mis-representaions" by the Illinios state PTA. Maybe I'm over sensitive, but those types of statements make me a little uncomfortable and at least question of the objectiveness of the author. Experience tells me that the truth in such matters usually falls somewhere in the middle. Cliques are Cliques and bad parent groups are bad parent groups, there affiliation usually has nothing to do with it and everything to do with the individuals running the group. Maybe things are done differently here in Michigan than elsewhere, but becasue we are required to have our books audited yearly, submit a budget to the state office, and have our bi-laws reviewed regularly we have been spared so many of the disasters I've read about in the last few days.

As to the cost of membership. I wonder if groups realize some of the great benefits of that $3.75. Again, maybe money isn't as tight in other places, but as we see our edcuation dollars disapearing in this sluggish ecomomy, we have utilized many of the programs and training that PTA offeres to us free of charge. Like Buinding Successful Partnership, Taking Charge of Your TV, and Keys to Leadership to name a few. Any one of these programs would cost several hundereds of dollars to bring in a trained speaker. We have received help from our legislative office when drafting a proposal for our city to add a community policing officer. We received assistance and materials when we lobbied our district to improve the nutritinal quality of school lunches. So many resourses that are available for the asking.

I have not problem with PTO's (espically since I'm an officer in one), but I don't think groups should short sightedly dismiss PTA out of hand.

Hi mom -

I'm glad you asked the question, especially since you have concerns that might be keeping you from taking full advantage of the site. Please do know that this forum, our magazine, this entire site, all of our services, etc. are completely open to PTAs. Here in the forum -- like others have said -- I hope you'll free to express your opinions about the PTA. A variety of points of view makes for good discourse.

To your original comment ("...most of your comments and articles seem to contain a negative bias against PTA's..."), two responses:

1. The fact is that 95%+ of the articles and forum postings, etc. on this site have nothing at all to do with PTO v PTA. Stories on involvement and fundraising and dealing with difficult principals, etc. and discussion forum postings on the same type of issues are (we hope) great for all parent group leaders, just as the home page says. Similarly, our services -- like School Family Nights to help groups build involvement -- are serving all groups and have nothing to do with PTO v PTA.

2. In this particular (small) portion of our site, we (usually I) do talk a lot about PTO v PTA. I often take on three roles in these discussions: a) PTO cheerleader ("PTOs do great work"); b) PTO defender ("no, PTOs are not somehow abandoning children. Quite the opposite, actually..."); and 3) lone "official" voice questioning long-assumed PTA selling points. ("PTA dues costs average PTA unit more than $850." and "PTOs can easily become 501c3s" and "PTOs are not just fundraising machines just as PTAs are not just fundraising machines.")

There's a national PTA Web site. There are at least 45 state PTA websites. There are hundreds of PTA council Web sites. There are at least a couple of hundred of "officials" of the PTA (state officers, national board members, etc.) who have for decades been the only voice on this issue. There are more PTOs than PTAs, but PTOs don't have a large, organized bureaucracy to make the PTO case.

Because of that imbalance, I do feel a bit of responsibility to make sure "the other side"/the PTO side is made clear and and to consistently address misconceptions that are still widely spread on virtually every state PTA web site. If not here, where else?

At the end of the day, PTO Today celebrates the work of all parent groups. I think local PTA volunteers and local PTO volunteers are 100% equally wonderful.

If a group takes a close look at its options and chooses PTA, I think that's great. I know they'll do terrific work for kids. Same if they choose PTO.

I hope you'll stay around and share your insight on this and the many other parent group issues that come up around here. You're more than welcome. Hope this reply sheds some light on my thinking.

Tim

[ 03-14-2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Rockne ]

Maybe you need to check out the site a little bit more before making this blanket statement.

*This IS PTOToday, so it is pro-PTO.
*Out of 11 topics, only 1 is labeled as PTOvsPTA and it is to help those groups who choose a different system.
*I don't believe that anyone here has ever doubted that the PTA has done wonderful things nationally. The problem for many is how it operates locally. If it doesn't meet the needs of the school why should parents have to be a part of it?
*The majority of the postings are questions on how to do things, venting over problems, or suggestions for events...areas that the PTO and the PTA don't really dictate.

Take a closer look around and you'll see that this site is helpful regardless of the type of group you belong to! :cool: