someone pass the popcorn.......

Wow! what a H o T topic.....

and miss out on all this fun??????

Is there no end in sight? :confused:

quote:

. As a PTA, you already have resources available to you because you pay for it.

Most of the resources, especially those in the PTA website are free to all groups also. I couldn't comment on the materials in NPN, because I don't have a paid membership to that. I pay $4.00 a year for the access to other hard copy materials, e-learning courses, Our Children magazine and our annual Resource books. But many resources for all groups come from all different sources. PTO Today and pta.org are just a small few. If PTO Today didn't exist, there would still be resources for PTOs. They did it for many years until 5 years ago when this site started. There are message groups all over the internet (some of the posters here participate in more than just this one) In other words, I have MANY resources available to me whether I paid for it or not.



You made my point exactly – Tim is going to cater to those who pay their way – pay for his service – not to those who are getting info for free. Therefore, why should he cater to those who complain, yet spend no money with him?


quote:

The name of a company is very important – it is part of your corporate identity.

quote:

I suppose he could call his site jiffylube.com and one would expect to get PTO/PTA information?

The world thinks of PTO as the Patent and Trademark Office (two different purposes, same name) in fact, they even have a newsletter called PTO Today! WWF stood for the world wrestling federation and the world wildlife fund... wrestling pandas and cheetahs....I don't think so.
The name is a small part of your corporate identity, it's your product and your marketing that makes the difference and if the name itself only mattered, advertising agencies would be out of business.



This is the lamest argument and I beg to differ on what the world thinks of when you say PTO – now if you were to say USPTO that would be a different story. Their newsletter is referred to as USPTO Today – found that via Google (their website is uspto.gov also). Also your other example, WWF – The World Wildlife Fund went to court to force The World Wrestling Federation to change their name. They did – World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) is their new name. I bet if I was to start a group and call it PTA, the national office would come down on me like white on rice and expect me to pay up! Your product and marketing do matter, but if someone can remember your product but can’t remember where to get it, your product will die on the vine. A better argument would be that the everyday, casual parent does not know the difference between PTA and PTO. I think that would go for most of those in the media as well. I guess if Coca Cola just called themselves the chemical makeup of their drink, it would still be the most popular drink in the world?

If there are problems in any Parent group, I want to see them. It helps me and others to not make the same mistakes. Like I said before, I think that the reason problems with PTA groups are seen more is because the PTA is a large, organized national group. There are probably hundreds of thousands of PTOs and they are not as organized at the PTA. And because PTOs do not have the layers of governing bodies and general lack of organization, those that have problems (and I am sure that there are many) do not come to light – not saying that they are not out there, they are just not being reported. Since many are not even incorporated or have their 501(c)(3) status, and are just informal groups. I have a hard time seeing the reporting of what is happening is bullying. Now if Tim just spit out constant vitriol that would be different. How the word “ouch” before an article about whatever is seen as bullying escapes me.

I know it is being questioned by some, I am not a registered user for reasons I cannot go into right now. When school begins next month, my plans are to register and join (pony up $$) because I feel that this site has a lot to offer to my group.

First of all, I will requote myself...

I might get irrated by the Anti-PTA stuff from time to time but just like my membership in the PTA, I weigh the good with the bad and have decided that the good outweighs the bad. Any other PTA people who come here, need to learn to accept it because that's just how it is.

In other words, I'm not really complaining about it. I'm just explaining it to the other PTA people (however sensitive you might think they are)

Odd that I never hear from MichelleB anything like: "Wow, those free School Family Nights (more than 10,000 were held last year) are an amazing Involvement tool!." Or: "That last issue was chock-full of great stuff for all groups."

Okay, when I first got on the forum, I e-mailed you personally about the family nights and how it was a terrific idea and asked if any group could use it? Do you remember? As for the issue, I don't read it. I get PTA's Our Children and Working Mother Magazine and those two publication cover pretty much everything I need. I have never once, in my life, seen a printed copy of your magazine. If it wasn't for the website, I wouldn't even know it existed. If I got it, I'd probably read it and in all honesty, could then make a comment on it.

And that most state PTA web sites contain easy to find PTO v PTA content with decidedly one-sided versions ofevents.

I'm sure that's true, but we aren't talking about the individual websites (PTOs, PFAs and PTAs all have some individual websites that discuss this from time to time, I've seen plenty on all sides.) Since, we reference PTO Today as the main page for all PTOs, then PTAs National website would be it's equivalent.

This sounds like the reason one group or one group of groups went PTO. There's no evidence at all that segregation issues were the major precipitating factor in loss of PTA affiliation.

No, the only evidence is that the first PTOs started in the south after desegregation and the many books about the civil rights movement. With that information, it isn't too hard to form a hypothesis. I never said this was the major precipitating factor, only that it was the origin of PTOs. What came after is anyones guess.

To answer lurking's question -- there are just too many reasons for disaffiliation to list.

First, the question lurking asked was isn't the origins of ALL PTOs, disgruntled PTAs and I'm pretty sure that I said pretty much the same thing...
yep...

There are hundreds of reasons why there are PTOs and not all of them are because they are disgruntled PTAs.

And I never said LARGELY because of desegregation, only that it is where it started.

Anyway, my point is when newspapers write stories, it's easier to pick on a PTA because it is everywhere than it is to pick on PTO, or PIE, or HSA, or ....

In the same regard, there are hundreds of positive stories about PTAs and I rarely if ever, see one. It is only the negative that is highlighted.

. As a PTA, you already have resources available to you because you pay for it.

Most of the resources, especially those in the PTA website are free to all groups also. I couldn't comment on the materials in NPN, because I don't have a paid membership to that. I pay $4.00 a year for the access to other hard copy materials, e-learning courses, Our Children magazine and our annual Resource books. But many resources for all groups come from all different sources. PTO Today and pta.org are just a small few. If PTO Today didn't exist, there would still be resources for PTOs. They did it for many years until 5 years ago when this site started. There are message groups all over the internet (some of the posters here participate in more than just this one) In other words, I have MANY resources available to me whether I paid for it or not.

The name of a company is very important – it is part of your corporate identity.

I suppose he could call his site jiffylube.com and one would expect to get PTO/PTA information?

The world thinks of PTO as the Patent and Trademark Office (two different purposes, same name) in fact, they even have a newsletter called PTO Today! WWF stood for the world wrestling federation and the world wildlife fund... wrestling pandas and cheetahs....I don't think so.
The name is a small part of your corporate identity, it's your product and your marketing that makes the difference and if the name itself only mattered, advertising agencies would be out of business.

Bottom line, no, he doesn't have to change anything for the PTA people here, but it should be no surprise when someone gets sensitive about it. Sure there are other things on this website and the PTA people who do come here, probably don't see the other non-PTA stuff because as it's been said, we already get a majority of the information elsewhere. So when we don't use or see the other stuff on the website, the anti-PTA stuff is more apparent to PTA people. And when you are told all groups are welcome then it isn't okay to make those that aren't part of the preferred group feel inferior or uncomfortable. In our schools, that's called bullying.

While Tim has invited everyone to join in and participate – bottom line is that it is his web site (and commercial endeavor) and he may run it how he chooses.

I don't disagree with that, but as any business goes, when your customers start to ask for something, you pay attention and do what you can to provide it. This leads to the growth of your business and a better bottom line. And in any business, the people who frequent it, have every right to express concern or anger, if this business does something that they find objectionable. He may run it how he chooses but as more and more PTA people come here, he is being asked to take it in another direction or to make it very clear that this isn't a business for them.

In your answer above you state: “…when your customers start to ask for something, you pay attention and do what you can to provide it.” - that is not necessarily so. As a PTA, you already have resources available to you because you pay for it. As a PTO, by nature, the same resources are not available and Tim saw this need and has tried to fill the gap. Therefore, why should he change what he is doing to fulfill the needs of groups who already have the resources available? He is going to cater to those who are paying for his assistance – not to those who are getting them for free.


IMHO is comparing apples to oranges – this is ptotoday.com not ptostoday.com (parent-teacher organizations.com).

It is not the name of the company but the claims that it makes a site for all groups. It is a very relative analogy.
Another analogy (perhaps more explanatory)- If a business claims that they provide all carpeting at a low cost and when you enter the building, they only sell hardwood floors, and a couple of throw rugs in the back, it's misleading.

It is comparing apples to oranges – he is welcoming all groups to the site, but his main focus is to the PTOs or groups that are not affiliated with a larger network of service organizations. It did not take me anytime to figure this out just by looking at what he is offering. The name of a company is very important – it is part of your corporate identity. In many cases, it is what introduces new clients to what it is you offer – especially in a web forum. I suppose he could call his site jiffylube.com and one would expect to get PTO/PTA information?

IMHO – I think many Parent service groups can co-exist. When I was growing up, my mother was active in both PTA and PTO groups. The PTA has paved the way for many reforms that we see in schools today. With that said, I think I am going to start a Jiffy Lube at my son’s school…..

[ 07-27-2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Rockne ]