OK CrewChief, here is the first and probably the last time I disagree with you!!

The principal, as head of school, ultimate authority figure of all parent and community relations and childrens education, and leader of teachers, role model for his staff, is THE leader and has a moral obligation to take the HIGH ROAD NO MATTER THE PRESUMED CIRCUMSTANCES based on what has been said (and i admit i ignore the she said she said details abouve, all that concerns me is that ANY FINAL action/decision was taken in absentia)

You wouldnt want a leader with morals ethics and a rule book to just say, OH this case is SO obvious, that I will just make an exeuctutive decision and bypass due process. Even George W must follow the rules. Even he can take very few, if any, executive decisions. ANd it is clear, that it is likely that the same outcome would have prevailed had all sides been heard, my point is , one must first HEAR all sides AND follow rules, if thery are in place, otherwise you set precedent and for lesser things, the PTOA heads and pricnpal take other decisions without folowoign their own bylaws ie precedent is set, and the bylaws and there fore the group as a whole, becomes less effective.

We surely do NOT have the whole story from wlovelace, there is ALWAYS more in the murky background. I think she was treated unfairly (again, i am ignoring the details of her spat) and school is all about learning to treat your fellow man FAIRLY.

Ok, thats it for me on this topic! I am sure i will agree w you on all other posts, no hard feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

aOK - you and I usually agree and I'm definitely a rule follower. But sometimes in these types of situations I think the 'rules' do have to be ignored. Sadly, there are plenty of criminals running around because someone forgot to read them their rights or evidence was improperly gathered or, I don't know, list a reason. It happens all the time. Technicalities shouldn't aide and abet.

In this particular case, based only on info provided here, I think the correct actions were taken. Regardless of RRO, by-laws or codes of conduct, when grown ups behave so terribly and children are adversely affected immediate action needs to be taken.

If this does prompt their PTO to include removal clauses and the school to adopt a Volunteer Code of Conduct then that's terrific. But until then, I don't believe the absence of a rule means no action can be taken.

Mostly, as others have mentioned, I think the originator of this post, wlovelace, needs to step back for awhile. Pushing herself upon a group that clearly would like her to take a break doesn't help at all.

Regarding the original question,

Is there some sort of by-law that I broke?

That depends on your own group's bylaws. But, again, does it matter?

Phils points are well taken.

I would add 2 thoutghts, that if due process (ie the bylaws and or RRO) are bypassed in such cases becuase the case seems so 'obvious' to someone non-accused and in a position of authority to out someone, then

a)it sure would behoove the PTOA to have in place a code of conduct and or

b) it might make some wonder, well why the heck do we have rules if we dont follow them, seems we can bypass them on a whim if the princ agrees.....it undermines the purpose of bylaws in a way. Might be worth it just to go thru the motions to let folks know that they take their own rules seriously and expect them to be abided by.

Re a) On another recent thread, there was a great link to VOLUNTEER CODES OF CONDUCT. I think if folks were held accountable to something such as that, ie made AWARE of their responsibilty as a bd member or officer, and realize thier responsiblity as role models etc. then when such event happen, they dont feel slighted as wlovelace clearly does, when 'da rules' are totally ignored ie due process as outlined in the PTOA bylaws or RRO. Many PTOAs have no rules of conduct or guidelines.

Re b) Having said that, everyone, incl wlovelace, has a right to have thier side heard in full, without ANYONE, in particular someone not present (it doesnt sound like the princ was present) agreeing to out a member without even a face to face talk to get the FACTS and both sides.

If from what is posted by wlovelace is all there is, and in fact the princ was NOT at the mtg at whcih the disturbanc occured, IMO it is the princ that set a poor example by giving tacit or overt approval to the disciplinary actions taken with zero due process.

My .02

Whoa! We are getting a bit off topic. Let me first address the original post:

wlovelace,

I do appreciate the passion you have and the effort you have expended for your PTO. However, assuming the facts as you yourself presented them, I would have to agree with your removal from the PTO board. I respectfully request that you accept the decision, regardless of whether it was made following the proper channels.

This would not prevent you from continuing to serve as a committee member or volunteer for the organization. Perhaps, after a couple of years in that capacity, your can heal your reputation enough to serve on the board again.

From the point of view of the Principal and the PTO, the behavior of the other parent and your own described behavior was atrocious. Screaming and swearing between adults in a public forum is never acceptable. Doing so in front of children, for whom you - as parents and role models - should be setting an example, compounds the offense regardless of the justification. However, as a PTO Bd. member you are a spokesperson and representative of the PTO as a whole and you therefore have a special obligation to behave in a respectful, moral and aboveboard manner. Given the egregious nature of the incident, the PTO is justified in removing you from office, IMHO.

I am getting on a soapbox here but it seems to me an organization cannot function to its maximum potential without basic respect between and for the individuals who make up the group. This does not mean there won't be disagreements or differing viewpoints - sometimes even passionate discussions. But when these happen there needs to be a basic respect and trust to fall back on. This allows each person say their piece to and leads to either a good compromise or a decision (vote) made with a clear understanding of the pros and cons. It is not clear from your description whether this entire incident is wildly out of line with normal behavior. Since it is not clearly stated that way, it is a reasonable assumption that this was not an isolated incident (and I hope I am wrong here).

This is not an easy thing to achieve. The Principal has to set the tone for the entire school, but if the parents, teachers, and staff don’t support the message on a continual basis then the message is undermined. One of the first programs the PTO funds each year is an Anti-Bullying program for the kids. This is done at the request of our Principal. My initial reaction was, “Why are we bringing this program in again, we don’t have a big problem with kids bullying kids?” Then it dawned on me that we don’t have a problem because the program is brought in every year, the school focuses on teaching kids to recognize improper behavior and how to counteract it, and when minor issues arise they are dealt with quickly and fairly. As it is with the kids, so it is with the adults. This is the only school my kids have attended and so I do not have detailed knowledge about how other schools operate. But the more I read about these kinds of issues on these boards, and the more I see how common they are, the more grateful and appreciative of the place where I am.

I don’t know how a school can get to the point I think we are at. I think it starts with the Principal setting the appropriate tone, setting high expectations, behaving consistently, and getting the buy-in from all involved. There is no silver bullet for making it happen – I suspect it takes consistent behavior over several years before it becomes second nature.

I need to get off the soapbox now, but the post and related responses really got me thinking.

I really hope things work out well for you and your school, wlovelace. Good luck and keep us posted.

PTO P(r)etty Tough Organization,,,,IF you have to be a man to get respect and be considered an authority figure!! Do female principals and supers also get less respect than their male counterparts??

What happened to all the efforts of the suffragettes and the more recent Betty Freidan's etc etc etc. ???

Ok ,off soapbox and into the reality PTOshow:

Seems from all ive read here, one has to get HUSBAND to run for office, and the spouse does a Hilary Clinton (ie: pass ideas that way).

Might make for more peaceful PTOs,Peace & Tranquility Organization (and save the onerous bylaws revisions becuase of catty bickering, for more important, legitimate, real issues).

Our children give us the opportunity to become the parents we always wish we had. Anonymous

Oh see, you hit the nail on the head! Before me, our group had a male president for two years. Not only is he great in every other way (long time friend of the family) but he simply didn't allow the petty stuff. And he was a man so that automatically gave him more respect and authority. Why is that????? Anyway, when he turned the group over to me I tried very hard to do a lot of the same things he did. But I never mastered the Dad stare (over the top of his glasses and straight into your eyes)!

Thanks for the kind words aOK - but I can't hold a candle to the folks you mentioned above and our friends dlf, LUVMYKIDS, mykidsmom.... And Critter and pals - I'm merely an apprentice to their mastery of all thing PTO/A.