Yes, I may be guilty this time of misreading the nuances (in my defense, I've got pneumonia again/still and on a lot of really good pharmaceuticals! [img]smile.gif[/img] )
I too really enjoy the passionate two sided debates but I really love the idea of a posse! I've got duct tape!!

If you still need help after Monday....we can just take all the ppl that posted and form a posse and come down and...

I don't think I can post the rest hahahahaha but you get the point [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hi kma -

Naw, I'm not advocating acting before you know what you're dealing with. I guess I'm saying that after seven weeks and repeated unreturned phone calls, etc. -- you know all you need to to move to another level.

As far as trusting the police or authorities, I guess we do have a different opinion. I certainly believe that the police are better equipped to handle investigating possible financial misdeeds than I am. Appreciate your opinion otherwise.

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Forum note: The biggest danger in a forum environment is the lack of nuance and tone available in a text-only world. Where I may be smiling, appreciating your input, and thinking that the two-way discussion is very insightful for all; my writing may be coming across to you as harsh or like a personal attack. Not meant to be that way. Apologies if it came across that way.

The forum is four and a half years old. I do think that some of the best learning comes from the best, most 2-sided debates. It's my philosophy that really hashing out important issues like these is good for everyone, especially the thousands who read the forum and don't jump in. Pretty safe to say that someone reading this thread, for example, will have a thorough understanding of both sides of this issue and (I hope) will be in a better place to make his or her own educated decision. Remember, this thread may be read 6 months from now or 2 years from now. The emotions will be gone, but there will be a ton of insight available for a very stressed-out parent group leader.

I love the sharing. Thanks for your input. I know well that my opinion is not always shared by all. Glad you're sharing your opinion, too.

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:cool:

Tim

I went in and spoke to our Principle and 1 of our teachers (she is really good friends with this person). They agreed (after seeing all the paperwork the treasurer and I have) that something needs to be done. He wants to talk to her. They have a meeting scheduled for Monday afternoon(because she works)and he told her to bring in all the paperwork and money. I won't be there because she feels I shouldn't be but our treasurer will be there and she's already voiced her feelings to our principle. He is totally on our side. The teacher(her friend) also feels we have been more than patient and will see to it we get the money.

I don't know what her problem is with me, I'm not a mean person, or so I think. I would rather he handle it than call in the police. We live in a small town and most people know everyones business. This was kept as quiet as possible and I'd really like it to stay that way. News travels too quickly in this town.

Don't worry kma, I'll let you know if she signs up for anything over by your school. I won't let this happen again, especially to your group! In fact for the remainder of the year, the treasurer & I will be at all events and handle the money ourselves.

I will keep you all posted about Monday afternoon. Thanks for letting me vent, I really needed to do that.

Tim--good points made--especially concerning fiduciary responsibility and the begging for one more week, then another, then another, etcetera. I hear ya on all that. And like I said, at 7 weeks-- you can be pretty sure what's going on.

But...when you say "I've got a big problem with that[acting before you have all the facts]", am I to understand that you're advocating acting before you know what you're dealing with, and IF you should be wrong--Sorry? Potentially RUIN someone's life, their children's lives, definitely the PTA/PTO's reputation, and possibly YOUR reputation because you're pretty sure something is wrong? THAT I have a problem with. I'm not saying a leader should act as some sort of counselor or financial advisor--that's just silly. I'm just saying try to find out what you can BEFORE you go to the police. While doing the morally superior thing is admirable on some level, it's not ALWAYS right either.

And as far as the "amatuer detective" thing--believe me--I know from experience and through friends in the field--if you think all police are as dedicated, professional and intelligent as the "CSI" guys or Elliot Ness, you are mistaken. If you REALLY believe what you're saying about police being trained in how to handle these types of situtations and having the expertise to handle them without bungling it, God Bless. You must have had FAR better experiences than some of us concerning these matters. And I'm NOT saying that all police are corrupt, or stupid or [place whatever derogatory anti-police adjective you want here]. Again--that's just silly. Like I said, MY take is to find out what you can before you take action, and if it's not resolved in a timely matter--you HAVE to act. Like you said--it's your responsibilty.

What this thread was about was to advise someone on how to handle THEIR situation. NONE of us have the "correct" answer, because no two cases are the same. It's just people throwing their two cents in there to give support to someone going through a bad time. While I believe in what I espouse, as I'm sure you believe in your philosophy, I have to say I feel uncomfortable that the thread has gone from being about, and advising BERTHA, to having to defend what I or anyone else has to say about her situation. That's not what this thread is about. Should a topic concerning the issue being argued right now be posted in the "Legal" section, then I'd feel it was appropriate.

Bertha--I hope you weren't scared away by all the bickering, and that you know no one is judging your actions or lack thereof. It's just that everyone feels so pasasionately about doing what's right that sometimes you can't see the forest for all the trees! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I hear you guys. I really do. This is probably the toughest situation to handle for a parent group leader. It's amazing how often it comes up. I completely understand the desire to keep things quiet as long as possible in order to both: a) protect the reputation of your group; and b) give the "suspected one" every single possible benefit of the doubt.

I still disagree. (And Michelle -- trust me, my disagreeing has nothing to do with the person making the case.)

A couple of points:

kma -- you say it's such a "personal" issue. I hear ya, but I'd throw in that that's not exactly true when it comes to the PTO's money. As an officer you have a fiduciary responsibility to protect it. Your first concern in this type of case should be the kid's hard-earned money and protecting your group. I know that sounds harsh, but if you don't, no one will.

kma -- you also say that the PTO shouldn't act until it has all the facts. I've got a big problem with that. Your average parent group leader simply isn't qualified to investigate. So many of those things you mentioned (abuse, drug use...) are extremely serious and complicated matters. It's very, very possible that a good-hearted parent group leader could make serious mistakes and cause harm in those type cases. Police are trained to handle the same. Even more likely in those types of cases is that a parent group that's been put off for seven weeks will be put off (and lied/fibbed to and given the run-around and begged for mercy...) for seven more and then seven more.

I've spoken to probably 50-75 leaders in this position and I've been personally involved in 3 theft cases with PTOs. I understand the really delicate nature of this. In the case being discussed here -- it's already been seven weeks. I don't think I'm being overly harsh in suggesting that seven weeks is a major alarm bell.

If we disagree on whether going to the police is the solution, I hope all can see that playing amateur investigator can make things lots worse.

At the very least -- phone calls should lead to letters should lead to one certified letter (mentioning that police are next), should lead to police. (And I agree that a letter or call from principal might be an effective tool in that mix, too.) Someone has the kids money. You folks want it back.

This is a really valuable discussion. I appreciate all the passionate input.

Tim