After reading all the posts here, I naturally had to chime in with MY $0.02!

The way I see it, Daron represents a lot of pro-PTA people--they somehow feel morally superior for supporting the PTA, and feel PTOers are doing their children, school and America as a whole a dis-service by not supporting the PTA. NOT ALL PTA PEOPLE FEEL THIS WAY, especially those that are members of the PTA only because it's the parent-teacher group available at their school. In fact, I don't think there'd be a lot of PTA members at all if it weren't for that fact, and that because the PTA is hardly pro PTO, they don't go out of their way to educate people they CAN go PTO. Having had a rather unpleasant experience with my school's PTA, my views about the PTA are hardly unbiased. And by saying "the PTA", I mean the PTA AS WELL AS it's function as THE parent group in my son's school. I have a real problem with not with the PTA's stands on issues, because I agree with a lot of them, but I DO have a problem with anyone FROM THE OUTSIDE making demands of me, and telling me what I should or should not be doing in my school. However, pro-PTO people aren't perfect either, and have this nasty habit of acting like because a school decides to stay PTA they are somehow not able to think for themselves.

Personally, I'm not for the PTA as THE parent group at a school. It's moved too far from it's noble beginnings and encompasses too much outside education to be able to say it speaks for ALL the children. Too many issues they are interested in don't effect ALL the children and it shouldn't say that it speaks for ALL the children. Hot lunches, immunizations, quality books, quality programs and quality teachers DO affect ALL children. I dislike that one must be a paying member and support the things that DON'T in order to be allowed to be an involved parent in your school. I DO think that every school SHOULD have a PTA, because it DOES have a national platform we can use to effect changes in our children's lives. But I think that membership should be left to the individual parent. I also think every school should have a PTO. That is, a group of parents and teachers doing what IS GOOD FOR THE CHILDREN IN THAT SCHOOL. Every school is different, and as such needs a group that reflects THAT SCHOOL'S needs and make-up. YES, no PTO speaks for ALL the parents in that school, but it comes much closer than the PTA as a whole does. I think for someone to say ONLY one or the other is the best is crazy, because then you're silencing that "dissenting" voice that so often has something valid to say! Everyone keeps saying "I'm not knocking _________," but as soon as you say there should only be one or the other at a school, you ARE.

I think it also needs to be pointed out that Tim and his staff DO have a vested interest in making this website and magazine profitable. As they SHOULD, because it's they're for profit entities! He isn't some sort of nonprofit saint, nor is the NPN network, and shouldn't be held up as so. He ISN'T EVIL though because of that either! So for Tim to not exactly be pro PTA isn't a problem for me becase the PTA can take care of itself, why shouldn't PTOs have a place--even if Tim does make a buck on it in this case? Should he or others affiliated with PTO Today point out shortcomings of the PTA, they may not be doing it to ultimately make a greater profit, but maybe can help those involved with the PTA see it's faults so they can be recitified. Like it was said, just because you're "for profit" doesn't mean you're all bad, just as being "nonprofit" doesn't mean you're all good.

Originally posted by Michelle B:

And yes, PTA has employees who are paid however as defined legally- non-profit corporation definition - A nonprofit corporation is not formed with the intent to realize a profit, but is established for a religious, charitable, educational, literary or scientific purpose. Qualifying nonprofit corporations will be granted tax-exempt status by both federal and state authorities.
PTOtoday is established to realize a profit and it's income is profit. Who it profits I don't think is the point just that it's official purpose is such.

I always understand the intended point of folks using this line, but I never understand the logic behind it.

Let's follow the logic: I'm thirsty and there are two lemonade stands next to each other. One sells really tasty lemonade for a quarter. One sells medium-quality lemonade for fifty cents. Option A is a forprofit business. Option B is a nonprofit. Is it some how "more right" to choose option B? What if it was a lot closer, what if the only difference was the quarter vs. 26-cents?

(And, no, please don't make the leap that I'm saying that the PTA is offering bad lemonade for more money. I'm just putting the logic to the extreme to show how it doesn't work.)

There are so many great companies in the world, run by good people, doing good work. I bet many of your brothers and sisters and parents and husbands and wives work for companies like that. PTO Today aims to be the same.

"Nonprofit" and "for-profit" are legal statuses only. They say nothing about how "good" or "value-driven" an organization is. The work of an organization and the results of an organization say that.

Current example: there's a huge hubbub in my neck of the woods in Rhode Island right now. Blue Cross/Blue Shield RI is a nonprofit, but it's coming out that they've been paying a lavish salary and benefits package to the CEO, jacking up rates, and not serving the state's insured very well. Does the fact that BC/BS is a nonprofit make that OK or make them immune? As an insured I'd take a company (nonprofit or for profit, I don't care) that offers good insurance coverage, good service and at a good price anyday.

Excuse my soapbox moment....

Tim

[ 04-10-2004, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Rockne ]

Originally posted by Michelle B:
But I do think that your taking things stated here more personally than you should. Daron's school made a choice. He shared that choice with the forum.

He "shared that choice" in 5 posts and about 2500 words.

Since he chose to so vociferously defend his choice -- and in the process to take thinly veiled stabs at folks who'd make a different choice -- it does seem appropriate for Blue and others to have a say, too.

Tim

Correction:
PTA does not have a PAC. We lobby on the strength of our numbers, our reputation, and our moral authority. We have a small dedicated staff in DC and they mostly try to keep us abreast of child-related legislative activity.
What I love about PTA is that we ARE actively dealing with the cultural evolution of our country. If what you want is to work at the local level, fine. If you want to work at the state level, there is that opportunity. And if you have any energy left at all, you may work at the national level, and have a voice and a vote.
The irony of everychild.onevoice is that the voice is a blend of 50 states, USVI, and military schools abroad. We have local, state, and regional differences, and we apprecitate them, and try to respect one another.

I would love for D88 to continue on this board and on this site, it's chock full of great ideas and information! Sadly, it seems it may be his seemingly sour attitude towards the site that might stop him from doing so, not someone with a genuine disagreement.

I also highly respect and don't "begrudge" their decision; stay PTA if you'd like, but I constantly find pro-PTA'ers becoming quickly defensive when someone offers the advantages of PTO or even hints at a change. I can tell you, I found this site helpful and welcoming when we were still a PTA; but I never feel welcomed now at www.pta.org.

Let me say it another way; it's a good thing we at least have a two-party system in American politics. One party certainly couldn't represent everyone. PTA, by its very slogan, is attempting to "do" just that, or at least make the public believe it is. It seems like they're scared of choice. PTA, PTO, let the community decide what's best for them and go for it!

And actually, PTO could network successfully on educational issues without having to "lock-step" or "qualify" members. We could actually proceed to State Capitols or Washington DC and present real numbers saying, for example, on the issue of No Child Left Behind Funding, 63 percent of PTO members responding agree with current levels, while 37 percent do not. A total of 58 percent of the 12 million PTO membership responded. That gives an honest, forthright representation of what the little people think, rather than the most active people in an organization take it "their" way, and, rather than lobby with numbers, lobby with a "position statement". How can PTA truly say "we support X" if 49 percent of the delegates voted no?? That's like saying "America is happy that George W. Bush is being inaugurated today, January 20, 2001", when, indeed, half the country was not.

The PTA has the right to make any stand it wants; I wish they'd just be honest about their motives and missions.

Oh, as to the Virginia abortion, parental notification question, that issue came up prior to my arrival in PTA/PTO world. I applaud the rank and file of Virginia for their stand, because I like it personally, but again I state, my elementary school PTA has no business engaging in the politics of abortion, homosexuality, or other issues of the culture war. My PTO needs to focus on the educational needs of our children. Parents should engage in cultural, spiritual teaching and otherwise.

And, the truth be told, Mountain Dew is the ultimate drink. [img]smile.gif[/img]

blue- the first part that you quote, I read it differently. I read it to mean that a small group as part of said organization (not on their own) to sway the positions of that organization not what our government does.
The 1/6th is an exageration. Reference map from PTOtoday www.ptotoday.com/0800ptopta2.html
That isn't 1/6. California does however have a similiar position to Virginias. The big issue is that your state office doesn't have that position. Your membership does. It was brought forth as a resolution to the membership at the Virginia convention. It was discussed (because discussion happens before the vote) and then a vote was taken from the membership. If you were in attendance at that convention and you or your units delegate(s)argued why should Virginia PTA have a position on this controversial subject, (Nevada has a position that we will not have a position on items like these) and you or your delegate(s) voted no on that, then apparently the majority favored it?
If your unit voted on the local levels and took your units position to convention and directed your convention delegates to vote according to the will of your membership, then you are right. You didn't quit. You tried to excercise your rights and the majority won out on that one. But if you didn't excercise your RIGHTS as a member of that organization, (similiar to voting in the Presidential elections etc) then you may not have quit but you didn't fight either. I've said it many times, I don't always agree with how the majority has voted on certain issues but it doesn't mean that I don't have the right to effect any changes and quite frankly, any changes I make would likely be offensive to someone in a membership of 6mil+. We're not stepford wives! I must assume that when your PTO votes on an issue, it is always unanimous? Everyone is happy with what your group has chosen to do? And if there is a strong network of PTOs, there will be those that will not be happy with the educational issues. (vouchers is a very good educational example) and there will be those PTOs that will have the same problem that there is a position at all.If you do not limit whom you allow to join and what topics you cannot have a position on, then you eventually end up with a resolution just as controversial as Virginia's.
1 more point- I do not in any way knock your groups decision to be a PTO. It was the will of your membership and it is what is right for your school. I also do not in any way believe for a minute that you are not a devoted parent. You wouldn't be here if you weren't. But I do think that your taking things stated here more personally than you should. Daron's school made a choice. He shared that choice with the forum. it is what works for them so try to respect that and encourage him to join us in other topics.

You should put down that Coke, Pepsi is much better! [img]smile.gif[/img]