I've received several private emails (I call it the 'backchannel') as a result of this thread. I also know that this thread and others like it are read by a lot more folks than those of us who've posted.

I thought I'd cut and paste a couple of my responses to emails this weekend, and I hope they shed some more light on what we're doing here at PTO Today.

And then -- yes -- I'm going to close the topic, as I think it's best for the forum to do so.

(Rules note: debates or complaints about how the forum is run should be directed to me via email, not in the forum. We try to keep the forum focused on topics about groups, when we can.)

Some excerpts from my emails (also note that when I refer to "PTA" or "PTAers" I'm almost always referring to higher-ups in state or national PTA offices):

On the PTO - PTA "rivalry"

Honestly, there are a lot of PTAers who now think of PTO Today as the enemy. I've come to accept that as inevitable and it doesn't keep me up at night. It's important to note, though, that the PTA lost so much of its membership and its units well before PTO Today came along . We started PTO Today because 75% of K-8 groups were independent and not being served (though they needed service), not in order to make the numbers go that way. The numbers already were that way.

Since we've come along, it's convenient for PTAers to point to us as the cause of the steep drop-off in PTA membership, but it's just not true. In our NPN offering, fewer than 2% of our total group count has come from PTAs going PTO. Another 2% or so are active PTAs who belong to both (which is fine). The remaining 95% are PTOs who've been independent for years and now are happy to receive a higher level of service. Pushing PTAs to go PTO is not a priority, when there's something like 60,000 K-8s out there who are already independent. It makes for a nice story about us in state PTA offices around the country, but it's just not true.

Our entire business is focused on helping parent groups. If we do that, everything else (advertisers, web traffic -- the stuff you pointed out) happens naturally. If our serving parent groups well somehow causes PTAs to "go PTO", then I'd say that there's something amiss in the PTA offering. No one's suggesting, I don't think, that we should serve parent groups less well, are they?

On Taking Things Personally
Personal? Guilty. It is my career and our company. And it's my name that gets trashed around the country. I can take it (sometimes even enjoy it). But it is personal.

On Being Proud of Our Work
If we ever meet, I bet you'll be surprised at how similar we are in our passion for schools. Attend one of our conferences; you'll be impressed by the learning and sharing and utter lack of PTO v PTA talk (can't say the last part about a state or national PTA convention). We hosted 250 TX parent group leaders last week (and 550 in Chicago next week). Those leaders leave our conference renewed and full of ideas that will help them help kids. If not for our conference, they would have no help of that sort. It makes me and all of our staff very proud to do such good work. I bet you feel similar pride when you do great work at your school.

On my being a Member of PTA

I've joined because I've attended the National PTA convention every year and paying the $5 for a local membership saves me hundreds on my convention fee.

On why I attend the National PTA Convention

I attend the National convention to learn about parent group work (there are some good speakers -- some have written for our magazine); to stay abreast of PTA goings-on (which we cover in our magazine); and -- primarily -- because it's the only national convention each year where all of the vendors also happen to be clients of ours. It's a great place for us to do business with a whole bunch of our clients all in the same city, with excessive free time, for several days.

On Us "Borrowing" Ideas from PTA convention

I don't understand exactly why the hardcore PTAers take issue with -- for example -- my meeting Mark Levin (a great involvement speaker) at a PTA convention. After I met him, we asked him to write a feature story for our magazine and speak at our conferences. We were able to share his really effective messages with hundreds of thousands of parent group leaders, who -- in turn -- used his messages to build involvement at their schools. And we know that increased involvement helps kids. If there's something wrong with our spreading any helpful information for kids -- no matter where we get it -- I'm not seeing it.

The analogy would be me attending a medical conference and hearing a speaker talk about a new solution for preventing heart attacks. Isn't it good that all the attendees at his session then share his important news with as many people as possible? Does sharing his news somehow hurt the group that invited him to speak? Isn't that why he was invited to speak?

Mark's probably the only example I can think of of our getting content inspiration directly from the PTA. I've heard other discussions about our taking things like "treasurer's tips" or something. The folks making those accusations must not realize how many nonprofit management experts are out there in the world. The ASAE (american society of association executives) has thousands of members, for example. Same for parliamentarians and nonprofit lawyers and IRS experts, etc. PTA folks are grasping at straws -- and have an inflated view of the uniqueness of their content -- when we hear that.

Final Analysis

Since the PTA's nonprofit mission is to help kids (paraphrasing), you'd think there would be joy anytime involvement messages are spread or parent groups are helped. For too many higher-ups, the fundamental mission has morphed into "serve the PTA/save the PTA" instead of "serve kids". The question is never this clear, but I often wonder how the higher-ups at PTA would answer if given the choice of: "Kids being served really well but PTA is gone" vs. "Kids being served medium-well but PTA prospering as only parent group option". Those true to PTA mission would have to choose the former, wouldn't they?. But in my experience, there are a significant number of PTA higher-ups who would choose the latter. I think that's too bad, especially for a nonprofit.

This discussion thread and these emails don't show it, but the whole PTO v PTA thing is such an unimportant issue where it really counts -- at the schools for local units. I'm obviously enmeshed with it and you've (those involved in this forum thread) gotten a closer look at it in the past month than 99% of parent group leaders ever do. But it matters little. I work to remember that and keep our focus where it counts -- helping groups no matter the acronym. This discussion thread and all of these emails haven't helped with that this week.

I'm sure you do a great job at your school for the kids. That's the most important thing. Keep it up.

Tim

[ 04-12-2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Rockne ]

Michelle, I deleted that one. I sincerely apologize. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees if you know what I mean. I do respect what PTA has accomplished and will accomplish in the future on behalf of all children. I have nothing against the PTA. Never did. My mother was a PTA President when I was in elementary school and I remember all the wonderful things her group did. I try to do that for my school. Make memories that our children will remember fondly 40 years from now.

For me, there are pros and cons for each arguement. Each side has something to bring to the table. Something besides arguments and hurtful negatives.

There isn't much else I could say that wouldn't be redundant and Metzy- you have some of the best ideas ever, so yeah, I know you do:)
but just one more thing (I hope)

PTA speaks for children whose parents pay its membership dues. Otherwise, they would use their considerable weight to help every school regardless of its PTO/PTA status.

I don't know when a statement has actually hurt me more. When we are lobbying for more federal funding for education (5cents makes sense" for example), we don't ask for only PTA schools. The after school program campaign national is currently working on will likely benefit more schools that don't have any parent group at all, let alone a PTA. Our state PTA fought for a Parent Volunteer Coordinator at the district level who works with all Parent Groups and when we got the position, we have fought every year that they have tried to cut it, to keep it. We recently launched "Hope from Haydon" a public awareness campaign (similiar to MADD ribbons) for children who die in hot cars (96,000 children were treated in ERs last year and 36 died) PTAs gave out the ribbons but we also drove to area businesses and took them to non-PTA schools.
My own local Council partners PTAs with one PTA school and one non-PTA, that helps out with organizing their fundraisers, book drives, coat drives, clothing fair and even training.
Because 90% of the people (we've got our power freaks, for the glories and the just plain lazy) in this organization are here because they care about children (and I am NOT saying that anyone in a PTO does not care about children).

So just because some of the PTAs along the way blew it, or you don't like the way they go about it or even if you don't like the positions we're fighting for, don't think for one minute that we're doing it just for our members' kids.

Oh! And by the way...

Thank You Tim for doing what you do for all of us, whether we are PTA, PTO, PTSO, PTVO, etc. Our world would be so much smaller without your vision and this site.

I hope you need a Brinks truck one day. You deserve it.

I read EVERY word of EVERY post. Michelle (you know I love ya) and I obviously did not read the same thread...lol... There are a lot of 'thinly veiled' items coming from both sides, but I think Daron did the most mud slinging. Daron lobbed it out there and Michelle tried to elequently re-define what it is he was trying to say. Thing is, I think he meant exactly what he said and exactly the way he said. Daron started it and Michelle ended up defending it for him. That's okay. That's what big sisters do (brothers and sisters in PTA...). I hope that when I open my mouth without thinking about what I'm saying, who I'm saying it to, or whom it might offend, that someone will do the same for me. However, I think since he was big enough to start it, he should've been big enough to finish it. I also think that he reads this thread still...

On the different aspects of the arguments posed, I just want to say these few things:
1. Daron: Me thinks thou doth protest too much.
2. I didn't realize that the ads in the PTA mags were free. How do I get my business listed?
3. I deleted this one because I spoke out of turn. I apologize.
4. Slamming Tim Sullivan is just plain silly. He has put together a site that is just plain inspired. Imagine! Sending free magazines to any school who wants one! I know where some of that money that Tim supposedly rakes in goes...lol. Even when we disagree with each other, as will happen in all families, we know that we are all in it for the children, whether they be local, national or worldwide. That is in essence what PTA began with.
5. We are organized. We are not political. There is a difference.
6. I payed dues to a PTA one year, about 10 years ago. I'm still waiting for that school to have its first PTA meeting...lol... (laughing, but not joking). So much for my voice.
7. Daron should have just deleted his own post after his group decided stay PTA. There would have been no argument. Let's face it: he was sporting for a fight. He found one.
8.

I noticed at Overture (top search engine) you are paying .33 per click for searches done for "PTA". And on Google, you are paying for listing when searches are done for "PTA". So clearly you are trying to grab those who search for PTA....then of course they see the whole PTA vs PTO discussion when they come to your site, and thus many will leave PTA. But also I noticed National PTA is outbidding you for searches for "PTO" so I guess we all shall play the game together.

. If I understand this correctly, does that mean that PTA is paying more for a click? Some game...lol... Yeah, that's where I want my membership dues going...lol...
9. I never thought of PTA vs PTO as one being better 'morally' than the other. I always thought of it as parent groups working for children. I guess I missed that train...
10. I think everyone who helps at a school, schools at home, helps a child, volunteers at a boys/girls club, scouting, etc. is doing a good thing. Isn't it wonderful that we live in a country where we fight about who gets to help children more?

Let's all agree to disagree. Let's get on with doing good at school instead of reading and replying to threads where we argue and take pot shots at each others groups. Let's never forget that no one is morally superior when it comes to honestly doing what one believes is best for their school. Let's remember that we are all different, with different ideas and ways of doing things and that most of the time, no matter if we are PTO's or PTA's, that things work out in the end.

[ 04-12-2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: TheMetzyMom ]

Michelle- Glad to hear the promoters of "That's a Family" encourage parents to watch too.

So now can you explain to me what "varience" means?