Tim and d88, I think that for the most part, you're both wrong. Most of the groups that leave PTA aren't doing so because PTA is political, but rather they look at the money that is being paid for dues and think that they can use the money better. For the most part, these parents have no idea what is happening behind the scenes at state and national and not even realizing that their individual few dollars are funding programs, resources and yes, even political activity regarding children. But just like they often look at the whole dollar amount they send "out of their school" they don't consider the "whole dollar amount" of what that money can do. In fact, in the grand scheme of things, not much at the local level. It's not a large enough amount of money to really make a difference in their schools (not when you consider the actual costs of funding a school) but that too is a lack of information. Even using your average of 250 members at $5 a member,(a little high for my state but we'll go with it) $1250 looks like a large amount of money but when you consider that it will buy 4 sets of leveled readers or that it's only 7% of what would be needed to fund a $20,000 playground (that too is a conservative price for playground equipment and a couple of examples of where parent groups subsidize education)
That is the reason why most parent groups split off. The money not the politics. (there are those that are motivated by politics but as even you have said Tim, it's the money)

Hi d88 --

I agree with you on the basic impossibility of keeping everyone happy in a large, national organization.

Your response to Susan is fair (National PTA doesn't hide fact that it has political goals), but I think the rest of your long defense is a bit off the mark. Not because it's an inaccurate portrayal of what happens with Churches and Boy Scouts and Blockbuster, but because the typical local PTA and certainly the typical parent doesn't fit well into the analogy.

Let's use the Church/schism analogy. Lots of people join the Church. They decide that particular Church is the right one for them. The Church gets bigger and bigger. It gets harder and harder to keep all people happy. Finally, one particular disgruntled subset of the Church gets dissatisfied enough (and maybe has a charismatic leader/AC repairman ) and is large enough, so it breaks off to form own Church. Eventually, that subset -- if its successful -- will face same issues as original Church. I agree with your analysis on that.

But the average parent -- when his or her little Johnny gets to kindergarten or first grade -- joins the "parent group" at Johnny's school. If the school has a PTA, then the National PTA suddenly has one more "proud" member. If school has a PTO, then the parent is a "proud" PTO member. This parent doesn't even know the difference -- he or she was just trying to help out the school and show support and maybe chaperone a field trip and attend a few spaghetti suppers. (Important note: the chaperoning and the spaghetti-eating are good things.) They didn't get involved because they believed in National PTA's mission and politics; they get involved because the flyer that came home said: "please send us $5."

So it's not like they got involved with National, then became dissatisfied (a la Martin Luther or the A/C repairman) and broke off. For most former PTA groups, the change came when they realized there was this whole political structure and political activity (that they were supporting with their dues and membership) that didn't fit with why their local group existed. It's not that they have a problem with the specific beliefs of National (in fact, if asked, most would probably agree with a lot of National's goals), it's that they separate their local school involvement from their political activism.

To extend the analogy, if they were Church members, they wouldn't be saying: "I don't believe in what this pastor is espousing -- I'm leaving." Instead, they'd be saying: "Church? How'd I get in Church? I thought this was the Elks club meeting."

Too many PTAers think that groups "going PTO" are somehow saying that PTA's beliefs are bad. That's not it. Most former PTAs are simply saying -- that's not the system that are parent group is all about.

Both options are fair opinions about what the "parent group experience" should be like. Both good options. Most groups (more each month) are opting out of the Church, not choosing a different Church.

I appreciate your input. This is an interesting discussion, and I think the most importnat crux of the PTO v PTA debate.

Tim

d88keyz, you make some EXCELLENT points.

And, also being from the south - have you noticed the trends in our churches (at least Baptist and Methodist)? They get big enough to be fairly successful. At some point there's disagreement, and a splinter group goes off to form its own new church. So then we have all these tiny, fledgling churches struggling to survive. They meet in living rooms and borrowed space. The leader is something like an A/C repairman and a minister on the side. If they do survive and grow big enough - sure enough, sooner or later a dissenting group will will arise with complaints similar to those that led to the church's very creation!

Sound familiar...

Susan,

I'm Southern Baptist...the largest Protestant Denomination in the USA. But I don't agree 100% with all that the SBC does or "resolves" in annual conventions.

I'm an Eagle Scout, Boy Scout...But I don't agree 100% with all that the National Boy Scouts say and reply to the press they get for a stance they take on the whole homosexual thing.

I'm a Card carrying member of Blockbuster Video but don't agree 100% with the movies they rent (ok, that was a stretch-example, but....)

I'm a PTO Corresponding Secretary at my daughter's school (becasue that's what they have there), but I'm dissapointed when a PTO Board Member smiles with glee when she comments "we get to keep all the money oursleves!" concerning PTO dues....nor agree 100% with what that specific PTO is doing concerning the kids at the school.

I'm a PTA Vice President at my son's school, but don't agree 100% with all that that school does concerning kids, board decisions, district policies we discuss or decisions the principal makes.

I'm a State Board Member of the PTA in my state, but don't agree 100% with some of the things we discuss and as a board vote on.

My point?

You show me a national organization made up of thousands of people trying to reach the same goal effectively and nor upset anyone or cause conflicts in the group, NOR have "discussions" to disagree on something -- and I'll show you the Executive Board of Fairy Tale Land.

It's not out there.

YOU have convictions...YOU take the stands...YOU become a member (instead of giving up)...YOU speak out (instead of sitting on the side line)...YOU raise your voice (even though you may get blasted for it)...YOU jump in where you feel called to help and make a difference.

You will never find a group, organization, church, school, or business where you agree 100% with everyone in it. But we do find groups that we believe in their purpose and we join to help make a difference....and we fight.

How can a national parent school group reconcile itself with "this" type of action?

It can't.

So if you believe in the purpose and mission of the PTA, join...fight. If not...join another national organization that you think will fight for the views of public school and the children. Give your money elsewhere. But do get involved.

Somehow.

Back to the church comment. I once heard from a pastor about folks who are trying to find the perfect church...where there are no hypocrites. He said, "If you find a perfect church, don't join it...you'll just ruin it".

Yeah, yeah...i can hear the fingers typing now, feel free to blast the Southern Baptist Convention, the Boy Scouts, my PTO, my PTA, my State PTA Board, and even Blockbuster Video.

If they'd just keep their "New Release" section full when I come...geesh.

[ 12-06-2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: d88keyz ]

I am disturbed to read that the National PTA has lobbyist working on specific agendas. Does this bother anyone else? :confused:
I doubt all of the members at my school vote for the same canidates or vote the same on issues that come up in local, state and national government levels.
How can a national parent school group reconcile itself with this type of action?