"Can we agree, though, that if the treasurer isn't completely forthcoming and cooperative at this point, then contacting the authorities is 100% called for?"

Absolutely! I would not hesitate to legally go after an individual if they were not going to own up and pay up.

Every group should today make sure they have smart money handling procedures in place. They aren't a guarantee that you won't be victimized, but I'd wager that 95%+ of embezzle cases happen because the opportunity seems so easy.

Absolutely! I am sure most protections get put in after the fact. Our School is also guilty of not having stricter bylaws to govern the Treasurer. This year we will work to change this so that we can protect the future of out organization and hopefully never experience this.

It's obviously a difficult spot, and there's a good deal of gray in it.

Let me try and make a list of areas where there isn't gray. See if everyone agrees.

1. Every group should today make sure they have smart money handling procedures in place. They aren't a guarantee that you won't be victimized, but I'd wager that 95%+ of embezzle cases happen because the opportunity seems so easy.

2. Upon suspicion, a complete audit should immediately be run. Treasurer should not be on the audit committee.

3. If audit turns up oddities, I'd say contact authorities for help here. Others recommend trying to work things out in-house first. Can we agree, though, that if the treasurer isn't completely forthcoming and cooperative at this point, then contacting the authorities is 100% called for?

Any others?

Tim

Believe me I hear you on the children piece. But I don't see how this is different from any other crime. Using this analysis, we shouldn't prosecute any mother or father.

I've questioned that myself, in struggling with my position on this.
This is the difference. This is a crime that is committed in the child's world. The school is their place. It is the closest to home you can get and is far more likely to be part of their personal rumor mill. In many cases, every child in the school has met or known the volunteer in question. It is far reaching as opposed to a small group. Parents may not ever realize that the parent in the newspaper from a theft, assault or drunk driving issue is a parent at their child's school.
That too would be hard for a child and in one of those situations, it would be hard to shield a child from their parent's crimes but in this situation you can and it is a benefit to try. Drastic measures may not be avoided all of the time but the emotional impact on those close to the situation can be softened and the result of retrieving the funds, the ultimate goal, can still be realized.
I agree, that some of the hush may contribute to theft but lest we forget, we are doing this for the children. We wouldn't have parent groups if we weren't to consider our kids. I'm not willing to sacrifice any just to nail a thief.

[ 08-02-2004, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Michelle B ]

Originally posted by Michelle B:
They didn't do anything wrong and yet they too were made to pay for it.
...... But not at the expense of the innocent.

Believe me I hear you on the children piece. But I don't see how this is different from any other crime. Using this analysis, we shouldn't prosecute any mother or father.

Drunk driving. Spousal abuse. Assault. Theft. Conviction of a parent for any of those would be terrible for a child.

I believe that the cover-it-up, keep-it-quiet, just-get-restitution mindset that is not uncommon at all for parent groups is probably the #1 contributing factor in the near epidemic issue of parent group theft.

Tim

I t

I suppose it all depends on how quietly it can be handled. I realize that there could be the mindset of a "coverup" and frankly, I could care less about the feelings or reputation of the crook. It is the group and those associated to the crook that concerns me. We are a large but small community, "biggest little city in the world" and that is ever so true here. Everyone knows someone in at least the six degrees of...
There are two PTA units under me that had an embezzelment over two years ago. I am still approached as the state person, with, "I don't want to be a part of that organization, they steal from kids" Now, of course, any logical, sane person will realize that your group is the victim but sadly, when one person does something bad, it reflects on the group. It is the case of "they" steal from kids. One of the schools is in a specific area and a nearby school PTA is blamed for that other school's PTA embezzelment. These are not analogies but actual facts of the situation that I have personally dealt with. Residents look at this non-victim PTA and confuse it with the one that did have theft. It has hurt all of the schools involved and those remotely associated, in the ways of parental involvement.
Then there are the children involved. It is because of these experiences that when we get involved in a case of suspected embezzelment, that we involve as few people as possible. Some adults have the good sense to not discuss this in front of their children, others just don't get it. The school referenced in the latter, had this situation- the children of the thief, were bullied and harassed so much about their mother's crime, that they were moved by the school district to another school. They didn't do anything wrong and yet they too were made to pay for it.
While we run our groups like a business, it is a very different dynamic with multiple players, the group, the children, the school and the thief. Don't get me wrong, I think that the person desperate enough to steal from children is the lowest of the low and needs help (possible drugs, alcohol, addictions, etc) and punishment for the crime. But not at the expense of the innocent.

Final note: I've seen several instances where legal authorities have gotten involved, investigated, and where moneys (closer to *all* moneys) have been returned without prosecution or conviction. Authorities can make wise choices, too. In fact, there more well-trained to make those calls, too.

I was thinking about that same thing when I read Metzy's Post. I guess it depends on where you live. We live in a very small town and for starters I know the Superintendent, Principal, & board of Ed would do everything to stop us from pressing charges if the person were willing to make compensation. Then it also becomes do we want to fight the powers that be to press charges?
I can also bet any amount that if the person was willing to make restutution that the police would advise us to take the money and not press charges.

We are a tight knit community here and we have a town paper. It is the policy of the town paper to not name town residence who committ a crime as a protection to family members & children. So if someone robs the bank the story will only tell you about the robbery and not who did it. So even if we did file charges the town paper would report it, but never say who did it. Of course in a small town news travels fast and we all know bad news travels even faster.

In the Original Post it is mentioned that the theif was also on the board of Ed. So of course their Superintendent wants this thing handled privately as it affects more then just the PTO.

Of course this all hinges on dealing with a person who admits their guilt and is willing to pay up.