I was not implying that you were a bunch of lazy, ignorant people. The fact is, that when many groups disband, a majority of the time (and you can read it any of the posts here in the forum) it's the issue of money and not getting anything for it. Tim acknowledged that in his $1000 example because that is his experience mostly. Occasionally it is because of "issues" that PTA supports (vouchers) or supposedly supports, (PTA's Gay relationship and support- there are individual units that have made bad choices- as far as this PTA person is concerned or states that have passed controversial resolutions, but a lot people believe we support things that we don't)
For example, although one unit in the US passed a resolution that does not support an ammendment to ban gay marriage- we all have the right to pass individual ammendments and we do not have to get permission to pass anything as long as it is not in opposition to a State or National resolution. In this case, National has no position on Gay marriage or homosexuality in general. In our State, we specifically take a position of neutrality on anything that can be divisive to the organization- abortion, homosexuality etc. We neither support or oppose and cannot do either as a PTA. Some states have abstinence only resolutions- Mississippi- for sex education, or whatever. Washington state had a chartered unit that was a Gay unit (it has since disbanded and was the only one of it's kind)
The fact is National isn't lobbying for gay marriage or to make or keep abortion legal, your money isn't going there. And there was mention of PFLAG doing a workshop at convention- The workshop was a focus on bullying prevention- not how to be a gay person and they were given limits as to what they may distribute etc.
The point I am making there, is there are two sides to every story and what one person or website or whatever says about PTA, may or may not be true.
If your opposition is our position against vouchers. Yeah, we don't support them. I lost one of those two units because of that specific issue. It was true and that was that.
Heck, I don't agree 100% with all of the resolutions but I agree with most of it and if I come across as angry, it's because certain people feed off or provide misinformation and inflated "truths" not because they are in opposition to the issues but because it benefits them to do so (eagle forum-the anti women's rights movement website is a perfect example). And please don't think I am referring to you because I don't know your whole story. It's all speculation based on what you have provided, but it doesn't hurt to find out more and get all sides. And maybe you have, maybe you haven't, again, not implying that your lazy or ignorant but just another side to consider or not consider- Heck, I'm only one person and I don't know what your state PTA does but anyhow.
One poster even came here bound and determined to dissolve because of "issues". He talked to someone at State and then decided not only to stay a PTA but he's going to be on the State board now- to affect change. You can read the whole thing here- from his wanting to dissolve right down to the backlash when they didn't- www.ptotoday.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000209
Again, I'm not insulting you or your group or any of that. I'm just trying to help you by 1. Giving you a different perspective because if it makes a difference to you- great, if it doesn't- great but you have two sides to draw from before you make a decision. 2. Keep it clean. Do it honestly and you're going to do that now. It does make me angry when people do things that appear to be dishonest, especially when they are role models to children. It came across in my posts and I'm sorry but I am not sorry for how I feel, just like you shouldn't be sorry for how you feel. Your dues don't help us in our state. It isn't going to affect us as much as it will your state PTA. But as a parent and as a person who is passionate about what PTA does, I'd be remiss in not sharing that with you. It doesn't mean you have to listen.

I feel like I'm in the middle of something hostile. I don't need someone to tell us about all the wonderful things that PTA has to offer because frankly we are taking a stand on principle here. (Besides, I'm sure that time will come when we inform the state office of our intentions.) The bottom line is National PTA supports some programs that we as parents don't agree with and don't want to give money to help promote. Our dues last year were budgeted as $390. I don't have the final report that shows me how much of that was actually spent. But, the benefit verses cost argument is irrelevant because it still comes down to sending our money (whatever small amount that may be) to a group of people who make decisions that are directly opposed to our views. I came to this sight (PTO Today) searching for information that might help me know what to expect and what other options we had. It was helpful (thanks, Tim) and I will continue to use it as a resource for our group. Frankly, Michelle, it seems like you think we are a bunch of ignorant, lazy people who just didn't take the time to find out all the wonderful things PTA has to offer us. You may disagree with our reason for wanting to leave PTA, but we do have one and it goes beyond "unrealized resources".

By the way, Michelle, back to your origingal post to my question...I am going to make sure that we do everything above board. Thank you for reminding me that sometimes trying to skirt your way around something potentially difficult takes on the appearance of dishonesty. We never intended that.

Originally posted by Michelle B:
it could be the way their office is run, it could be a volunteer that doesn't follow through, but "THEY" are just volunteers like you and me and being a volunteer, you know that sometimes things can happen.

This is a likely scenario. Agree.

Problem is that the pricetag for membership (more than $1,000 per group) doesn't reflect the "just a little volunteer group" image you're trying to put out there.

Here's a group that has been sending, I don't know, $700 pe ryear or $1100 per year to state and national PTA for as long as they can remember. And their members don't even know the first thing about state and national PTA and their leaders have never heard from anyone related to PTA (except, I presume, for the membership bill). Ouch.

Michelle -- you seem to like analogies. Let me try one with a summer theme. If I joined a pool for $25, I'd expect that I'd have to bring my own towels and the water might be a little green and there'd be no lifeguard on duty. However, if I paid $1,000 to join a private pool club, I'd be sorely disappointed if the chlorine level wasn't checked three times a day, the place wasn't really clean, and the lifeguards weren't attentive.

One of the big questions lbr and folks like her (him?) often have is: where the heck is my money going? All her group wants is to do great work at their school (a great goal), but they're sending gobs of money to a vast unknown and seeing none of it back. If they spent a thousand and felt like they were getting $1000 of value -- great! Sounds like they don't feel thatv way.

Maybe next time they visit Chicago, they can get a tour of the national offices. National's annual budget this year is $12 million (in case folks were wondering where the money is going).

lbr -- glad to continue the conversation right here on the forums.

Tim

This isn't a contract but I have heard that reasoning before from one of the units that dissolved last year and when we asked they follow their bylaws in disbanding (this request was made by one of their own members and their member contacted me because she was upset about them doing it). There was no fight, they followed the timeline set up by the bylaws, they opened it up for us to attend, and they voted to disband (7 for disbanding, 3 for PTA)
It is sad that your members don't know what they are a member of. I encourage all of my units to educate their members on what they are a part of.
I realize you have done your part regarding the bylaws. It is right that you get them to do their part as well but it could be a one-time problem, it could be the way their office is run, it could be a volunteer that doesn't follow through, but "THEY" are just volunteers like you and me and being a volunteer, you know that sometimes things can happen. If you're upset by their lack of follow through and if this is the first time they've done this, just as if a volunteer at your school didn't do their part, would you try to find out why first or instantly condemn? There's a lot more I could touch on, and like I said, why you disband, or if you disband, isn't the issue for me. I don't want to get repetitive but instead of running this round and round on the forums, I'd love to talk to via e-mail. I would be happy to help you if you want information to compare with, if you need help contacting your office or if you have any questions. There's more I'd like to tell you but I don't think this forum is the place for it. (Not bad- [img]smile.gif[/img] )
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I appreciate your passion for the subject. And now I have a little more insight into your reasoning. My statement might be better understood by saying--if you have a contract between two parties that is only signed by one party, is that contract binding? We redid bylaws because we were told we had to. But we were also told they needed to be approved. The process was never completed as far as we know. So does that mean they were renewed? We don't know. I have no idea what the office situation is there, nor do I feel like that is our problem. We did what we were told we had to do. That's why I am going to call and find out our status. We are not trying to hide anything from anyone, but we would like to avoid a long, complicated procedure to end our affiliation, if possible. A PTA representative would be welcome to come speak to our members...good luck getting them (our members) there. We sure haven't been able to! And, I would be willing to venture that a very, very small percentage of them could even tell you if we are a PTA, PTO or anything or have any idea what the difference is.

I'd be more than happy to fill you in on our procedure of how this stuff is done in Nevada. I am notified (a volunteer myself) to get in touch with the units if their bylaws are due. It is every three years here. Otherwise, our office manager (only paid employee of our office, however, I know that at least a few of the state offices are run purely by volunteers) might get in touch with units to notify them they are due. The expiration date of their bylaws is on their own copy of the bylaws in the right hand corner. Once the bylaws are submitted, they are sent to our bylaws chairman to go over. (another volunteer. State Treasurer, mom and school bus driver) Once she has approved them, they are sent back to the state to be sent back to the unit marked either they were approved or recommended or required changes.
Recently, we had lost our office manager (can't imagine why, we couldn't afford to pay her much and when she was offered a job that paid double...) So we were without an office manager for a few months. (Can't just go out an hire, had to be voted on etc by board)
I am on top of things here as a Council President. I try to keep the lines of communication open with my units. I think I do well since I am constantly told via e-mail, phone and in person, that I'm quick and very helpful. I talk to a unit board member at least 4 times a week via e-mail or phone. But I am still a volunteer with a real, pays the bills job, a family (including my disabled, lives with me mother) and other responsibilities. Some of our volunteers may not be as devoted to getting the unpaid work done as I. That could be the case out of your state office. They could have no employees and a dwindling state board (that is the case for at least one state that I talk to) with little revenue coming in. There are a lot of reasons but I'm sure there is at least one person in the positions above you that would follow it up but they have to know about it first.
We have just under 200 units in our state and I personally have 30 under me. I'm good at keeping in touch because I am very technologically inclined. E-mail doesn't take as much time but makes you very accessible. Not everyone has gotten on that boat yet and some don't even know how to turn a computer on.
I have a friend in another state that has 125 units in her council alone. If she has to call each one, maybe she doesn't get to them as quickly as she could. I recently told her about how I use e-mail and now she's doing it but it never occurred to her.
We're all volunteers, just like you, doing what we can. And just like your group, you have some that do it well and you have others that don't do it at all.
As for my thinking you are being sneaky or dishonest, you KNOW that you did your bylaws, whether they acknowledged them or not. If you disband, knowing that you have bylaws, and you decide to pretend you didn't think they were in force. Call it what you want but if it looks like a duck...
I know there are many reasons why units disband under the radar. They're afraid of a scene, or some PTA haters are afraid they might find out things that would prompt their membership to stay PTA or they just don't want the hassle but fair is fair and honest is honest. The reasons why don't matter. Pretty extreme scenario but example, woman goes into a grocery store and steals lunch meat and cheese. Her kids are hungry and she was desperate. It's a very good reason but in that case is stealing no longer wrong? Does the case get thrown out because she had a good reason? No, not usually. She pays for the mistake but also finds out about resources she didn't know she had. Ways to feed her children without stealing. Help she could get but didn't know about.
I have dealt with new board members each year. Most people don't have any idea what PTA does or what your dues pay for or even that PTA is something other than their local unit. (there are plenty of pro-PTA and anti-PTA sites and there are a lot of misrepresentations and all out lies out there about what PTA stands for. Everyone has an opinion) I've had five units think about disbanding in the last year.
They followed their bylaws and notified me. (Although one, sent out information from this website via a newsletter before they notified me, hence how I ended up on the forums! [img]smile.gif[/img] didn't allow us to send a response out to their same membership, oh well) I didn't harass them about it. Wasn't angry. I shared with them what PTA does. I shared with them what I do for them. ALl but two of these board members were brand new to PTA and had no idea they even had resources. Three units never even went to a vote and they stayed. I even had two units come back this year. I didn't tell them how bad I thought PTO was (because I don't think that, it works for some and there are very good reasons on both sides, this is just my reason) I did a side by side comparison for them. Showed them what we had and they made an informed choice and the three are now some of the most active units in my council. (one of them had very few members and they came out ahead financially as PTA) It worked for them but everyone has their reasons. This is a great site for PTO options but it isn't a fair representation of PTA (in my opinion) and to make that comparison, you need to go the source. Facts are facts and if they arent' right for you, you'll know it. If your bylaws don't require it, you don't have to (ours require state officer notification).
I know I'm getting into the why I like PTA and if your bylaws don't require getting both sides before you dissolve, it's moot anyway but maybe it's something to think about.
The fact is, right is right, and you can spin it however you want to but it doesn't change what it is. If you contact them and they don't respond, that's their fault at least you followed the rules and at the end of the day, you're only accountable to yourself.